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QT500 Speedo Problem

Hi,

Im sure we have all heard of it, the dreaded speedo problem on the QT500.

It happened to me, all of a sudden, the dials just froze in a certain position and never worked again.

So I took it to the garage but they neither could get the speedo working again. All we managed to discover was that reconnecting the battery would reset the speedo (and all the clock and radio as well).

I had a think about this, went on the peugeot 106 owners club site where the same problem had been reported. It turns out that it is a feature built into the dashboard, to preserve the conditions of a supposed engine problem. The dials freeze on the conditions where the problem supposedly occurs. We know that we don't have problems, it just stops working when you switch the engine off.

I then thought about ways around it, about getting effectively a battery kill switch that could be operated from inside the car, to reset the battery before every trip to get the speedo working. But again, the clock and radio would lose all their settings.

I then thought about a switch capable of killing power to just the dash. This seemed like the best solution, seen as there are no other solutions I could find.

I went about getting to the dash. To do so, you have to first remove the plastic ring around the gear stick. Unscrew the two screws under there. Then unscrew the two screws in front of the radio. Lift this panel up and slide your fingers between it to unclip the three switches (heater, hazards and wipers). They have clip on terminals.

After this, you need to remove the next panel. To do this, the radio has to come out. Again, a nightmare. Once out, take off the second panel and you can get to the dash. There are more screws here, unscrew everything and the dash comes out. Behind it are two terminals plugged into it. Remove both, there should be a yellow and a black one.

Now on the black terminal, there should be a white wire that has the numbers "51a" on it. This is the culprit wire. Cut this in the middle and take two wires off it. These wires will go to a switch.

Put everything back and it should be fixed. The switch should go as follows: Always on until the dash freezes. At this point, turn it off then turn it back on again. When it turns back on again, the dials go back to their zero positions and the speedo will work.

I am thinking of getting a key switch or a push to close switch.

I hope that people will now be able to fix ths annoying problem.

Jordan

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Permalink Reply by Jordan on February 19, 2010 at 9:56pm

I have just experienced my first freezing dials after installing the switch between the mentioned wire 51a.

I got in and saw that the dial was stuck on the 1000 revs, 1/2 fuel and 0mph. So before starting, I turned the switch off. I then turned it immediately back on again and the dials jumped into life and all clicked back to their zero positions.

I started the engine and no problems! It froze again when I turned the engine off but the switch again could fix it. The annoying thing is that it resets the clock. But it is better the clock than all the radio and other stuff as well.

And for some reason my QT does not start if anything is turned on. Even just an indicator, it just turns over but does not fire. So I can't try the sidelights trick but thank you puk. And instead of taking the dash out to reset the speedo, just disconnect the battery if you don't put a switch in. It cuts power to everything, whereas this switch only cuts the power to the dials.

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Permalink Reply by john yeates on February 22, 2010 at 8:53pm

Hi i wish i could provide an answer to your problem.My qt 500 drives me round the twist with the speedo freezing and clock resetting,i thought i would wait to the warmer weather and try and sort the problem out.
I was thinking it was just a problem with mine. The clock reads one o'clock everytime you start up and it did once go to 17 minutes before it froze and reset but this was a rarity as its normally a couple of times per minute.I find it very frustrating because it seems to catch my eye everytime it freezes. If anyone has been in touch with the manufactures or knows a solution please let me know.
If it stops being like siberia out there and i can sort it out i will post it in the discussions.
John

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Permalink Reply by Jordan on February 22, 2010 at 9:40pm

Hi,

I will try to post a video of what happens when my dials now freeze. When the engine is turned off, flick the switch and the dials all return to their zero positions and the speedo works.

From what I am hearing, the nature of the problem is different in each QT. Some freeze and stay frozen like mine and others freeze then work again.

Peugeot knows of no solution neither does Cunninghams. Ideally we need to know more about the "safety" feature that causes the dials to freeze in the first place. There could be a wire that goes into the dash that is responsible for "informing" the dashboard computer of a "problem".

Peugeot just direct you to your local dealer when you ask for technical info. The dealers tend not to know about how the dash is constructed.

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Permalink Reply by Jordan on February 28, 2010 at 11:48am

Here is a picture of the switch. It is a push to break switch and because it only kills power to the speedo and not the whole car (alarm, immobiliser etc.) I didn't install a key switch.

When the dash freezes, I turn the engine off and press this wwitch for about 3 seconds. The dials return to zero and the dash works again.

It is certainly worth a try to anybody who has this problem as it does not take up a lot of space and may fix the problem.

By the way, it is the little black switch, the red switch is for my fog light!

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Permalink Reply by Jordan on February 28, 2010 at 12:33pm

I may connect the fog light to the factory installed one, I did notice it on the indicator lever.

When I bought the vehicle, the fog light switch and fog light was already installed. They had not earthed the fog light properley either.

Thanks Puk

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Permalink Reply by Roger on April 5, 2010 at 8:23pm

Found the following on Peugeot forum:

"connection maybe coming loose with the vibrations? or your battery/alternator not supplying enough current. Do your headlamps go really dim aswell?

I wuold say its you battery dying really. I had it when i lost my alternator belt a couple of years ago. I kept driving for another 110miles then the speedo started to stick, lights fadded wippers slowed. Check that your sub is not using to much power and everything is wired up right

Do they like freeze mid drive?

Mine did this shortly after getting a sub, going down the motorway and then kept freezing then resetting them selves and stuff...

Turned out it was interference caused by the power cable and RCA leads running to close to each other up near the amp. Gotta keep them seperate all the way."

I have two ideas:

1. Problem may be caused by RFI (radio frequency interference). Widget suggests it always happens to him in the same place, a local speed camera. Has anyone else noticed this. Has it happened to anyone as a mobile phone has been turned on or positioned in front of the dash or a call recieved? The secma could be prone to RFI because the dash electronics are not screened ie. surrounded by earthed metal. Are silver/metallic cars less prone to it? solution to try and screen the dash. An experiment might be to put some aluminium foil in a plastic bag/poly pocket connect it to earth with a cable and lay/tape over the dash, drive through the problem location see if it makes any difference.

2. Signal cables to dash are effected by interference from within the car. guess might be the alternator output cables( high current ac cables). Repositioning and or screening the cables may help.

What do people think, anyone fancy experimenting?

Regards Roger.

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Permalink Reply by Roger on April 6, 2010 at 3:50pm

The AC power from the alternator runs near the signal cables to the dashboard. The speedo signal from the gearbox and the tacho signal from the coil. Hence the suggestion to consider separating and screening here. This is all guess work, I am no electronics expert.

puk said:

For your second point... there is no AC power near the dashboard, the ac power is in the power regulator transmitted to dc power at the rear of the engine, other situation by Peugeot were the enginr is in fron of the vehikle and the alternator is also at the front near the dashboard, and a litle condensator needs to delete the reference for the ac:dc swtich.
In the QT is that condensator build in in the regulator.

But it is always good to tape the wires in alufolie in the dashboard to prevent tham against interference from outside
a other posibilitie is an instalt radio with bad ground wires and the powering up interference with the antenna

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Permalink Reply by Roger on April 6, 2010 at 7:34pm

Sorry Puk struggling with your translation:

are you saying:

OK Roger I now Know what you mean.
But what we all did is give the regulator another place, we put it on top of the gearbox ( there is one long M8 bolt) to cool it better instead of the heat of the engine, and then the wires lay a little further away from the signal wires. And that's the reason that we don't have the problem. It is possible.

or in google Dutch:

OK Roger Ik weet nu wat je bedoelt.
Maar wat we allemaal gedaan is geeft de regulator een andere plaats, zetten we het op de top van de versnellingsbak (er is een lange M8 bout) om het beter te koelen in plaats van de warmte van de motor, en vervolgens de draden lag een beetje verder weg van het signaal draden. En dat is de reden dat we niet het probleem. Het is mogelijk.

So am I right in saying you have noticed the problem go away after repositioning the regulator?

Thanks again Puk,

Regards Roger.

By the way enjoying Secma.be.forum. Have worked out google translate so hope to soon introduce myself and participate on your site.

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Permalink Reply by Roger on April 6, 2010 at 8:22pm

Just had a look for the M8 bolt hole on top of the gearbox.
Perfect, must be cooler for the regulator provided my leads are long enough to reach.
I also plan to separate the DC regulator output cable from the ac alternator output cables which currently run together through a short piece of sleeving before they split at the soldered joints. I wonder if this is the fundamental problem with freezing dash board (although touch wood mine does not seem prone to it). The more prone cars might have a longer run with cables side by side!

Thanks Puk, I think you have possibly provided the solution. Hopefully Widget &/or Jordan will reposition there regulators to prove it. I'll try and post so photos tomorrow.

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Permalink Reply by Roger on April 7, 2010 at 12:13pm

I have now remounted my regulator on top of the gearbox, this puts the cables in a clear position away from the wiring loom containing the signal cables for speedo and tacho, and less likely to cause inteference. The regulator should be cooler here by not being next to the engine. The regulator is mounted on a long M8 bolt to position it clear of the gear selector lever.

Attachments:

Regulator on gearbox.JPG, 792 KB
Regulator M8 bolt.JPG, 100 KB

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Permalink Reply by Roger on April 7, 2010 at 6:25pm

My regulator was fastened to the end of the gearbox with just one M8 bolt with an allen key head. It was tight when I first removed it prior to soldering the joints. I think I removed the ECU to give me more space. I used a socket set allen key bit in a ratchet.

tony said:

roger as yours is the nearest age as mine do you have trouble undoing the original bolts off the engine.i cant seem to undo or tighten mine without them snapping off with hot or cold engine?

Roger said:
I have now remounted my regulator on top of the gearbox, this puts the cables in a clear position away from the wiring loom containing the signal cables for speedo and tacho, and less likely to cause inteference. The regulator should be cooler here by not being next to the engine. The regulator is mounted on a long M8 bolt to position it clear of the gear selector lever.

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Permalink Reply by Roger on May 1, 2010 at 3:49pm

Sorry for returning to this subject! I have had the problem now. To eliminate the voltage regulator as the problem I connected a volt meter. It didn't eliminate it. The voltage kept rising on rising revs! I now believe that my intermittent speedo problem was caused by over voltage. I have changed my voltage regulator, only time will tell if this stops the speedo problem.
If you have any speedo/dash failure suggest you check your voltage regulator. Over voltage could cause further problems not only with speedo but also battery and worst of all ECU!